Updated 11/23/2008 - HDTV and Surround Sound Recommendations!

[pizzaluvr]

can someone explain to me exactly what amps are? i know they make it sound better, but how do you hook one up and how exactly do they increase the sound? Also, what reiceiver do you have to have? i have the one that came with an onkyo ht-s590 HTIB(i think RT-330) ? will that work?

[pebblez]

Originally Posted by pizzaluvr

can someone explain to me exactly what amps are? i know they make it sound better, but how do you hook one up and how exactly do they increase the sound? Also, what reiceiver do you have to have? i have the one that came with an onkyo ht-s590 HTIB(i think RT-330) ? will that work?

they dont make it better, just louder. They amplify or increase the power output to the speakers so they can play louder to increase the sound pressure level (SPL) for the listener. I think any reciever can take an amp because the amp gets its info from the reciever. if your speakers need the extra power, then an amp is probably neccessary. but if you have the HTIB, then I'm sure your speakers are powerd perfectly. your onkyo reciever should do fine, and get a onkyo amp to keep it looking good. but a good amp is not cheap.

[ArielAtom]

Thanks for the reply Lambo

What does my age have to do with my A/V receiver needs? I just read the latest issue of The Perfect Vision and they gave the quoted receiver 10/10 for music and 9/10 for movies. It is just what I was looking for. I don't really care or want to pay for the ability to have one cable instead of three or four, or to have 480p conversion, or analog to digital etc. etc. I just want the biggest slice of pie to be for good sound.

What is your opinion on XLR jacks? I know they are used for amps and mixers for live performances with Mics and stuff, so they must be good. But better than conventional?

Thank you for that information on Bose, its fascinating. I actually know a "Bose o phile" :P

Can you (and death hopefully) why there is a need for an amp, and a pre amp, and a receiver? Please, educate me!

Oh and death please reply to my first post of the night if you can.

I have been wondering also, what is generally better in a stereo situation: bookshelfs and a sub, or towers? Of course, if both are the same price.

[ArielAtom]

^ disregard my question about the amps/receiver question, your last post answered it.

[pebblez]

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Thanks for the reply Lambo

What does my age have to do with my A/V receiver needs? I just read the latest issue of The Perfect Vision and they gave the quoted receiver 10/10 for music and 9/10 for movies. It is just what I was looking for. I don't really care or want to pay for the ability to have one cable instead of three or four, or to have 480p conversion, or analog to digital etc. etc. I just want the biggest slice of pie to be for good sound.

What is your opinion on XLR jacks? I know they are used for amps and mixers for live performances with Mics and stuff, so they must be good. But better than conventional?

Thank you for that information on Bose, its fascinating. I actually know a "Bose o phile" :P

I have been wondering also, what is generally better in a stereo situation: bookshelfs and a sub, or towers? Of course, if both are the same price.

well that surround sound processer seems like a very professional product. I'm definately not calling you young and naive, but to spend $1k on something that will be out performed after your done with highschool and looking for mor more would be improper spending imo.

looking at its size, it doesnt seem to have very many inputs and outputs. a larger av reciever would have many terminals for all your needs. but i didnt read the whole page you provided, so I cant base my judgements on anything concrete.

i dont know anything about xlr jacks.

show that bose o phile that webpage. show him what a fool he is.

for the stereo music listening, it really depends on the speakers. Some towers are not very efficient at low frequencies, while others are. I'd still always hace a sub, as it can be turned down if to much; but cant be turned up if one isnt present.

[ArielAtom]

good point about the subwoofer, I really do miss it when it is turned off on my old shelf system here.

I will be sure to show him that, although I would feel bad for making him hate his $1300.00 lol. That link even has quite an extensive list of surround speakers.

I find your comment about my wanting a better system once I am out of high school. Did this happen to you? Are there any purchases you regret when you were my age? I have been thinking about getting 1000 bucks of stereo speaker - those aperions are so enticing its poisonous - and upgrading from there. Every birthday or christmas I would have 600 to upgrade it with every half year (christmas and birthdays). Looking at what I could have in 2 years or so is exciting, to say the least:P. Or should I just get something that I could live with, and bask in 2 additional years of multi-channel sun?
I will have to go down and audition some speakers and ask myself those questions. It is alot of money, but I know it would be worth it, from the anticipation to the research to the music, GoW, LoTR, and forza 2. I just gotta earn it in cash first!

What do you have for your main sound system? My Sony is by far the best sound in my house, so this is going to blow my mind.

[pebblez]

yes, i have some purchases i regret, some more simple than others.

but i'm gonna say get a small HTIB or something similar to what i mentioned above (good reciever and satalite combo), then just let the money come in and let it sit, gaining intrest in a bank account, so when your out of school ( i mean college) and have a home, you have a much larger sum of money to buy the latest, greatest products. this way you don't have a combination of the last decades mediocre products.

[Shike]

Originally Posted by lambo_freak

I think any receiver can take an amp because the amp gets its info from the receiver. if your speakers need the extra power, then an amp is probably necessary.

NO NO NO NO NO!

You CAN'T use any receiver with an amplifier. You need preouts to use an amplifier properly. This was one of the biggest reasons I just upgraded to the VSX-816K.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

I have been wondering also, what is generally better in a stereo situation: bookshelfs and a sub, or towers? Of course, if both are the same price.

That's a solid question. It really comes down to the quality of the speakers regardless. With a tower, you won't get nearly as low as a subwoofer except for some special cases (truly custom built stuff). So, regardless I would say keep a sub. Towers can go lower which can allow you to do a couple things. They can blend extremely well at a lower crossover point, it puts less load on the sub thanks to the lower crossover. Then again, THX has their xover at 80Hz and so do I (even with tower). Either way, I find towers blend in extremely well.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

I find your comment about my wanting a better system once I am out of high school. Did this happen to you? Are there any purchases you regret when you were my age? I have been thinking about getting 1000 bucks of stereo speaker - those aperions are so enticing its poisonous - and upgrading from there. Every birthday or christmas I would have 600 to upgrade it with every half year (christmas and birthdays).

Well, there's tons of theory and advice to go around. Some will say audition as many speakers as you possibly can. From there, research what you liked and try applying it to an even potentially better set of speakers until you're completely satisfied and buy those. They will sound great to you, because you've researched the characteristic you liked most.

In this day and age, I truly am shocked at people who insist on arguing over $15000 speakers. When it comes to sound quality, the one that give you the best Frequency Response is usually the one to go with. However, personal taste is what's often presented in these futile debates.

My personal predicament is of something similar. I love my JBL E60s which I just bought last year, but the midrange is about 15dB lower than my treble frequencies. All around, the midrange is generally laid back in regards to the rest. That was after using my receiver's EQ by the way.

I was left debating, ripping out and modifying/buying a new crossover, or buying new speakers entirely.

Then I thought hard, and started looking into equalizers again. This is probably the most argued aspect of audio technology, whether they hinder or kill the sound, etc. I personally will be going with one, because the largest jumps and peaks in my system are due to my rooms acoustics and I can fix whatever little bit I need to to get my midrange in line.

This brings into question, "when is buying expensive speakers, let alone ones with characteristics I like not beneficial".

The best thing I could suggest for you, is to buy whatever you can that's from a reputable company, cheaper than competition, and has a solid frequency response. Then put money into developing the BASIC electronics, in other words getting a good receiver, consider an amplifier if you're not getting enough from your speakers. Then, I guess would be to debate getting an equalizer or acoustically treating your room after you test the frequency response in your room. This can allow you to adjust for room issues, and with an EQ maybe allow you to try different speaker characteristics.

Without treating your room in one way or another, upgrading speakers regardless of their characteristics will interfere with them. IMO, at least with an EQ this can be compensated for (some say EQs are for fine tuning high end systems to rooms with unfavorable characteristics, and thus why I would consider it as treating a room will be much more expensive).

Of course, if you find the equalizer a waste of time, buying from a place with a money back guarantee (allowing you to audition the equipment) proves useful.

Sorry, I guess I bounced around a lot.

[Deathwish238]

Hope I'm not too late...but...for what it's worth

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Too bad about those speakers! They still sound great though .

I am back to revive this thread a bit

Remember when I asked if there was a receiver that has a high priority on sound and low priority on video? Well I think I may have found just the thing (if it is available in Canada):
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...orce_avp16.htm
It is classified as a surround-sound processor though. As usual, I have a slew of questions for you.

Since this would take up so much of my budget, I am considering getting it and a set of stereo speakers and upgrading from there. Those aperion 632s look great for that purpose. I was wondering if there could possibly be a solution to remaining stereo. I was thinking I could use my aforementioned speakers for the surrounds, and its subwoofer (worth about $100 at the time) to hold me over multi-channel-wise until I can dig up some scratch.

You can probably use the speakers and sub you currently have until you can ugprade to better. Just make sure the impedance is 6 or 8 ohms.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

First off, would you recommend this "surround-sound processor" for my needs? Is there anything better for the price or less that you know of?

A surround sound processor only processes the sound, it doesn't have an amplifier. Basically you'ld be going "seperates" if buy a seperate processor and amp. It gives you the best sound quality because you have power for the processor and seperate power for the amp. It's also nice for upgrading as you don't have to upgrade your amp as technology improves while with a receiver you're forced to upgrade it all. A reciever is an amp and processor(also called pre-amp or pre-processor) in one box.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Furthermore, my shelf speakers have an impendance (i think its called) of 6? (lol ohm is alt z). Im not sure, but almost all of the receivers I have seen have an impendance of 8?. What would this mean for my less-resistant speakers?

The lower the impedance, the more easily power will run to the speaker, the hotter the amp will get, the less stable the system. Most decent receivers can handle 6 and 8 ohms. Some can handle 4 ohms.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Is it possible on this receiver (or on any) to have dual-subwoofers? I would likely just remove my crap-by-comparison sub as it would pull my system down, but is it possible?

I've seen a few receivers with dual subwoofer preouts...but you could just get an RCA splitter, that'ld do the job just as well

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Also, would it be possible, in this theoretical setup, to have a setup with the L and R, 1 surround, and a center channel? Would it be better just to have 2 surrounds and no center channel?

If you have good fronts, you can get away with a phantom center channel.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Would it sound bad if I had such a mis-matched system, with different impendance and about 5 worlds of difference in quality of speakers from front to surrounds?

Thanks for the help!

As long as your fronts are the same it shouldn't be too big of a deal. In an ideal world all the speakers should be timber matched. If they don't all sound the same then you may be able to pick out which speaker is playing. But if it's just the surrounds, it's not as big of a deal.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

also, Why do people hate Bose so much? Not saying I like them or want to defend them, but what is so bad about them? They have some pretty expensive stuff at future shop, and they are in many cars.
Is the consensus of the audiophile communtiy reflected in Lambo's (old) avatar?

They take a KIA and try to sell it off as a Lexus.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

Can you (and death hopefully) why there is a need for an amp, and a pre amp, and a receiver? Please, educate me!

You need either an amp and a preamp or a receiver. The preamp takes the signal from your devices, decodes it, turns it into information your speakers can understand, sends it to the amp, the amp then increases the power of the signal and sends it to your speaker. The receiver = preamp + amp in one box.

Originally Posted by ArielAtom

I have been wondering also, what is generally better in a stereo situation: bookshelfs and a sub, or towers? Of course, if both are the same price.

It's up to each person's taste. Bookshelves are a bit easier to setup and aren't as large. Towers give a bit fuller of a sound. Most towers can't go as low as an awesome sub, so I would go with the bookshelves and a good sub. There are towers with built in subs...like the Definitive Technology SuperTowers. With towers like those, you don't need a sub and I'ld probably take those over bookshelves + a sub. So it depends on the situation and application.

[ArielAtom]

Thank you, Shike and Death, for the help. I am indeed enducated! But more questions still.

Does a driver count matter much? I thought it was the same situation with sats/subs, with tweeters/woofers. Different drivers handle different frequencies, so I would think a lack of a tweeter is quite a disadvantage, but there are many speakers out there with only 1 driver, as you undoubtedly know.

I was thinking that I listen to tons of music at my computer, so I could grab some aperion 422s, as I read their sealed-box, smaller design is good for near-field imaging etc. what would be involved with hooking up computer speakers? Are any sold that have built in amplification, or would I need a stereo receiver? Could I use this?
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...2/aslwave8.htm

I was browsing the net, and stumbled upon the following list:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin.../coolaudio.htm

This list got me thinking about the advantages of separates and tubes. They say a tube amp (I think) is better than a Solid state amp worth three times as much. Is this true?
Are 5.1 tube amps available? Do they cost much?

Furthermore, what is the deal with that knob? You just put it in a metal box with some terminals on it and it will create sound? I read the whole review on it, but all I got out of it was that it has like <.0001% THD. Could I just put this on one side of a box and have a bunch of opticla inputs hooked up to alternate passing through and being processed by this...um... knob?

Am I in way over my head in this stuff?


Lambo, I have been seriously pondering your suggestion to invest. I have already invested about $1500, which has grown quite a bit. I think sometimes I wait too long